Evil Editor said...Anyone besides me read the second book?
Dave F. said...I didn't read the second book. I'm not anxious to go back to that dystopia.
sylvia said...(I've not read the second book)
fairyhedgehog said...I'm reading book two now. I was very cross at all the loose ends that were left at the end of book one. I hate series books that are more like a serial. Mind you, it didn't stop me borrowing the next book!
Robin S. said...I've only read this first one, but I'm with FH - even in a series, I need closure, book to book.
Evil Editor said...Isn't there closure? The Hunger games end. We know who won. You can't have closure in the society changing, or there'd be no series.
sylvia said...There was closure, true. But it seemed like another book that ended on a note of "And to find out how this works out, you need to get the next one" and I wasn't expecting that. Leviathan did the same, even more blatantly, so perhaps I'm just touchy. I felt it looked like a standalone. Catching Fire (is that right? I've not got it) isn't a sequel, it's Part 2 of the same story.
fairyhedgehog said....Exactly!
Evil Editor said...It doesn't pick up where book 1 left off, time has passed.
fairyhedgehog said....It felt much more unfinished to me than most books do that are a series. You could have had a temporary solution to the Peeta/Gale problem. At the end of book one I was mostly annoyed that the Peeta/Gale thing was up in the air, rather than upset at the darkness of the world. Kat was clearly in love with Gale but not admitting it to herself. I'd have liked a happy reunion with him - but of course that wouldn't fit in with all the events of book 2.
Dave F. said...I was sorry the Peeta/Gale thing wasn't resolved but this story needed some sort of romantic element. Katniss can't be a celibate nun with aspirations of being Joan of Arc. We'd all hate that. She's got a taste of girly-hood and boys will follow.
Rachel said...If it's Peeta vs. Gale, I vote Peeta. He's been onscreen a lot longer and gone through more with/for Kat. My guess is that, in the third book, one of them dies. That'll solve it easily enough.
fairyhedgehog said...I think Rachel is right. Killing off a character is an easy way out in this book. I reckon she'll end up with Gale though because he's her true love (sic).
Evil Editor said...I agree, she should go for Peeta. But women never know what's good for them.
Robin S. said...And HA Sparky - FH and I are here with you, aren't we?!
fairyhedgehog said...I think Katniss has to survive book two, and I'm guessing she's alive at the end of book three.
Dave F. said...According to the public blurb on AMAZON, Book 3 is called Mockingjay. With a title like that, Katniss' personal pin, she better survive.
Robin S. said...Anyway, the world of this book - no way could I take this for 3 books. I'd need to go on anti-depressants.
sylvia said...I enjoyed it though - I think that's what makes it frustrating :D
fairyhedgehog said...I'm enjoying the second one less. It's just as fast a read but I'm finding it more depressing. I think the excitement overcame the depression in the first book.
Dave F. said...And it is ghoulish: "The arenas are historic sites, preserved after the game. Popular destinations for Capitol residents to visit, to vacation. Go for a month, rewatch the games, tour the catacombs, visit the sites where the deaths too place. You can even take part in reenactments. They say the food is excellent." At least when Schwarzenegger did THE RUNNING MAN they paid homage to the dead contestants in the movie. This story turns the arenas into vacation play spots. It's not like Gettysburg (about 150 miles away from where I live) where even when the re-enacters do their thing, it is a memorial to a just cause. The arenas in The Hunger Game memorialize an invented competition for keeping the population mollified.
sylvia said...I think that was part of the point - it's a form of gladiators and people really are ghoulish when given permission. Add to that the competitive aspects of the districts and I saw this as pretty believable.
fairyhedgehog said...Dave, I think we're meant to be horrified. The Capitol treats it like Big Brother but to the contestants it's genuinely life or death - and mostly death.
Robin S. said...Also it pisses me off, seeing people in a captured lifestyle and having to fight to the death. Makes me want to lead an insurrection to wipe those assholes who planned this thing - OUT. Capitol, schmapitol.
sylvia said...The entire scenario was depressing but I don't know, that aspect didn't bother me so much. I thought the world-building she did was really clever. I never felt like someone was sitting me down and explaining how things worked, it was all done with context.
Dave F. said...It's well written. Collins is a good writer and the "world" is well-built and fleshed-out. I just think it's too dark. I would have trouble reading this with a kid and having to explain the occurrences. Perhaps that's just me. I suspect so. I wanted this to be an adult story and I think that what book 2 and 3 do is to take the story into the political realm and reveal the corruption and rot in the society that is only hinted at in the first book.
fairyhedgehog said...Like you, Dave, I wouldn't want to read this with a kid. I enjoyed it though and I'm getting the sense that you hated it?
Evil Editor said...Book 2 starts out depressing, and the twist revealed in chapter 12 makes it interesting and by the end hopefulness has crept in.
Robin S. said...You're right, Sylvia. The world-building really was well done. I believed it enough that it pissed me off. People really are ghoulish and disgusting when they are let loose to show it. I totally believed in the monstrous things I read in The Road, because of that. The Road is one of my top 10 all-time favorite novels. Resonant doesn't even begin to explain how I feel about it. This one - not really in the same league. A passing fancy kind of thing.
sylvia said...The Road is an example of a book that is too depressing for me to cope with reading a second book set in the same world. I finished it in the middle of the night and just cried. I'm looking forward to reading book 2 of this series though, I just felt a little bit tricked at the end of book 1.
Robin S. said...Agree. The Road had to be a standalone. I couldn't have 'gone there' again! This novel really isn't my scene, but I read it because I'm working on expanding my reading horizions with EE's Chats. I see no POINT, no end game to it, nothing that stays with me, other than 'ewww', to be honest. I think that means that a little more emotional/directional 'closure', for lack of a better word here, would have helped.
Dave F. said...Although I have watched the first of each at the insistence of friends, I will not watch the sequels of the SAW or HOSTEL movies. Nor do I seek out those blood-splatterific stories that so populate the "B" movie rolls. I usually don't/won't read much vampire and wolf because of the blood. I don't watch the Law and Order: Special Crimes Unit because it's all slasher crime or worse, child abuse. I'm a little weird that way. I'm not a fan of bloody films. I do like a good, solid tear-jerking family movie in the old sense of great story and good dialogue, etc... All three books might do that but at this point, I've got three other novels started and they are holding my interest. I don't want to invest time in this sad, sad, world. And that's just me.
fairyhedgehog said...It didn't feel like a kid's story to me, despite the young protagonists and the ease of reading. It felt like an adult's book, simply written.
sylvia said...My son read this at 14 (I think? certainly it was a while ago) and read book 2 this year. He didn't seem too traumatised but I think the combination of that and Doctorow's "Big Brother" seeded his current interest in dystopian fiction.
fairyhedgehog said...My kids are grown up so I was only thinking of my own enjoyment as I read it.
Evil Editor said...There's a more adult version of this story (that Collins, it has been suggested, may have borrowed from) called Battle Royale. By a Japanese author, been made into a film.
Rachel said...movie: FYI, the movie is due out 2011. Enough people were interested that Suzanne Collins was able to attach herself to the deal, and she's adapting the script. Apparently she's done some TV work before, which should help. One of the issues, I've heard (besides who's playing Kat), is making sure that the big screen doesn't follow the Hunger Games in the way the media in the book does. They've got to translate the distaste for that sensationalism into a movie that, while in some ways is sensational for that reason, does not condone it. Anyway, I'm planning on memorizing its release date and seeing in theaters ASAP. The only other movies I've done that for are Narnia and Despicable Me.
sylvia said...To be honest, while reading it I thought - this is clearly going to get filmed. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it was written with a screenplay in mind.
sylvia said...Ah hah: Battle Royale (Gollancz S.F.): Amazon.co.uk: Koushun Takami: Books although it does have one review saying the translation is awful :(
Rachel said...The first time I read this, I kind of expected what would happen to Rue, but it didn't really diminish the story. I figured that, if Kat's the good guy, she's got to get through killing people as innocently as possible. She can't kill in cold blood and still be our hero, so that left accident (Foxface), defence (Glimmer and the girl from 4), mercy (Cato), and justified/revenge (the boy from 1). Rue was different, though. For Kat to survive the Games, Rue had to die. Basically, that's the only way it could happen without hurting Kat in the reader's eyes.
fairyhedgehog said...Yes, Rue's death was inevitable. I still found it touching, though.
And it was clever that she got Kat out of killing Peeta altogether.
fairyhedgehog said...I don't want to give out spoilers, but I think that the second book is hinting that more major changes might occur in this world. I hope I'm reading it right. (I'm on chapter 18). EE you've probably got more idea as you've finished book 2.
Evil Editor said...Yes, FH, if at the end of book 1 you have no inkling that the districts are moving toward rebellion, that all they need is some figurehead leader to get behind, then I can see how this book would seem to be just a story set in a bleak and hopeless world. I'm hanging in there.
Robin S. said...A move toward rebellion, even a thought toward a move toward rebellion, in this one, would've made it worth the read for me. At the end of reading this one, I just felt hopeless and sad. And, as Sylvia mentioned, I felt like t was a screenplay - a fleshed-out screenplay.
Dave F. said...There are hints at rebels in the first book. I'm not sure if it is strong enough. I struggle with that when I write, How much twist can you provide with an ending before you anger the reader? How much do you foreshadow the final act.
Dave F. said...I said in another comment thread that I could handle "THE EMERALD FOREST" which has "breasts" in it (lots of breasts) and Bruce Willis' DIE HARD (vulgar language) when my nephews and nieces were teens. I don't have a good reference for this story in my head. It's like the original Grimm's Fairy tales. Years ago I read Rotkapchen (sorry, I can't add the umlauts) in the original German and it's quite bloody. Lots of the original fairy tales are scares -- Hansel and Gretel is a tale of abandonment. Maybe I one needs a different frame of reference when the teen says "What's with this world?" than I have.
sylvia said...Ah, that's an interesting point, Dave. I grew up on the original Grimm's versions, where stepmothers danced in iron shoes on hot coals until they died. My mother likes to tell the story that I read all these without wincing (I think most children have a strong sense of "right and wrong" and enjoy seeing the bad guys get punished, it's only when you shift to shades of grey that they get uncomfortable) but then screamed and cried when she took me to see Disney's Snow White. She had to take me outside to calm down from the forest scene.
Rachel said...I loved the descriptions of Kat's outfits. I'd wear them--though I'd join Kat in being afraid my hair would catch on fire. I liked how descriptions of food played into Kat's personality. Hunger and survival are so integral to her identity that it'd be out of character for her not to notice every detail of what she eats. The results make me hungry.
fairyhedgehog said...It's interesting what Collins chooses to describe and what she doesn't. I don't remember much description of the woods, or the home, but masses about the clothes and the food. Which I was shallow enough to enjoy!
Robin S. said...As Rachel mentioned, FH, the food was integral - so not shallow, but spot on, girl.
fairyhedgehog said...OK, food description not shallow! Good point Robin and Sylvia. Is the clothes description shallow? I enjoyed it and the clothes were very extreme. I liked the way they were so high-tech.
Dave F. said...Collins focuses the story on particular elements -- food, clothing, the hunting elements in the game. She doesn't wander around the landscape. That works in this story. The high tech stuff of the big city serves to highlight the oppression of the districts. Why can't the districts share in the bounty? That's the liberal democrat in me creeping out and waving HI!
sylvia said...I thought it was clear that rebellion was in the air but not ready to come to fruition. I agree with Rachel that the food descriptions were really telling of Kat's viewpoint. Much more effective than telling us that she was used to going hungry. The gadgetry was interesting but almost distracting. I didn't mind it but the story could have been futuristic without quite so much. On the other hand, it's fun to imagine what things will be like.
Evil Editor said...Isn't it about time all the countries of the world settled their disputes with Hunger Games instead of wars?
fairyhedgehog said...So who's going to volunteer to fight to the death? And what do the winners get?
Evil Editor said...Volunteers would be too easy to find. We need to have a reaping.
fairyhedgehog said...Truly, you are an Evil Editor!
Robin S. said...With all of the dumbass reality shows on TV now, and the fascination with people who aren't actually accomplishing anything, I can see where this would be a natural extension of where we'd be if there were a natural disaster of wide-reaching proportions. There's an interesting book- Full Circle - How the Classical World Came Back to Us - that talks about how we are not different from the Romans, etc., except for our technology. And they were certainly a bloodthirsty lot. And in the end, they went for bullshit entertainment as well. Something to think about...Maybe I should move to somewhere very remote.
sylvia said...I definitely took it to be a direct commentary on the modern world, especially reality shows but also the contrast between rich and poor, gossip magazines vs. starving children.
Rachel said...I was a bit confused on the layout of Panem. What I've gathered: the Capital is in the Rockies, leaning toward the west coast; 12 is/was Appalachia; 11 is/was the southern US; and 13 is/was Washington DC. What confuses me is their size. District 12 seems to be small enough that it's one town and the surrounding area and mines, plus the off-limit forest outside the fence. Everything's within walking distance. The Appalachians are a lot bigger than that at the moment, and this small place is providing coal for the nation? I guess what I'm saying is that I see two options: Panem consists of fenced-in districts with lots of empty space between them, or districts border very directly on each other. The first seems more likely, since every district has a town square where everybody has to assemble for the reaping, all within walking distance. That, and there seems to be enough wilderness between places for the Hunger Games to have a new, large arena every time. I could be weird on my economics, but I wonder how places that small can support such a gaudy and technological capital.
fairyhedgehog said...Not being in the US, the geography passed me by completely as well.
sylvia said...I presumed that the districts were separated by wasteland, I think the train journey and the reference to locations for the Hunger Game are what made me visualise it that way. I have to admit, I didn't try to map the geography onto the US.
Evil Editor said...Tech-wise, I found it hard to buy how there seemed to be enough cameras to record everything that happened in the arena. Were the contestants wearing cameras and microphones?
fairyhedgehog said...I was in a "a sufficiently advanced technology appears to be magic" mode, so the logistics of the technology didn't worry me.
Robin S. said...I never worry either, about the tech aspects - tech is magic to me now, so hey, future tech is magic, too.
fairyhedgehog said... *laughs*
Evil Editor said...I don't remember if Haymitch was a major character in book 1, but he is a cool character, at least in book 2.
Dave F. said...Katniss doesn't like Haymitch in book one. She thinks he;s a drunk. I think he's a drunk because he takes care of a kid who dies every year and is trying to assuage his conscience. But we don't see much of him because Katniss doesn't want him around. It's the POV that Collins holds so tight.
sylvia said...Haymitch: "I think he's a drunk because he takes care of a kid who dies every year and is trying to assuage his conscience." That was completely my take on him and I thought it was interesting how that came across despite the fact that Kat doesn't see it that way.
fairyhedgehog said...sylvia, yes Collins is very good at giving a wider picture, while keeping the point of view tight. I expected to hate this, for all the reasons Dave has given, and I'm not sure why I didn't. I think I just got too caught up in it.
Dave F. said...fairyhedgehog, My notes (Yes, I take notes as I read a book. I'm that anal retentive.) are definitely harsher than my statements in the discussion. I did like and enjoy the book.
Evil Editor said...Wouldn't it have made for better TV to choose adults instead of kids for the games?
sylvia said...No, adults would give up too easily. And YA sells better. :D
Robin S. said...I'd have gone for this more if adults were in the game. But then younger readers couldn't have identified with the characters, and it wouldn't have sold as well, I'm guessing.
fairyhedgehog said...So, EE, I'm getting a bit depressed by book two despite enjoying the first one. Is it worth reading to the end?
Evil Editor said...I think if the Hunger Games themselves don't interest you, maybe the series isn't for you. It's sort of like reading a great baseball book, but having no interest in baseball. Once the game starts, you tune out. I'm expecting the series to have a happy ending.
fairyhedgehog said...I'm hoping for a happy ending too. I'll feel desperately cheated if there isn't one.
Sarah Laurenson said...Hey all, Sorry, but I overslept. And I'm rushing off now. But I had to pop in because this was one of those rare books that I could not put down once I started reading it. 3:45am - I finally turned off the light, but only because I had reached the end. I'll be back later to read all the comments.
