ril said...So, tardy as usual, I'm only part way into Millhauser's collection...Evil Editor said...How far'd you get?
ril said...I just finished "The room in the Attic." I wanted to know what she looked like. I was disappointed...
Evil Editor said...What do you think she looked like?
ril said...I wanted her to be beautiful. I was expecting her to be plain. I wondered briefly if she were Wolf. I'm left knowing little about her...
Dave F. said...I felt isolation in "Attic" and some of the anonymous communication people so like. It's not deep and caring but cursory and fleeting.
Evil Editor said...So, the opening cartoon. An idea I wish I'd thought of. Amazing how many of the scenes felt familiar.
Dave F. said...The cartoon imagery was familiar and unfamiliar. His style is is different.
Evil Editor said...His style is different but everything is clear. None of that fancy crap.
ril said...No, definitely no purple prose. Just clear descriptions of a moment in time. One could imagine him detailing a grain of sand.
Evil Editor said...And then detailing those details.
ril said...I thought the cartoon was going to be a bit pedestrian, but it grew on me, and I liked the way he started to psychoanalyze their relationship. Present tense, of course, was perfect for that.
Dave F. said...I used to go to a small theater in the times before fixed starting times and when balconies existed and we always started with a cartoon. Sadly, now, they always start with previews and advertisements. They consider the cartoons too violent. this was a throwback and the familiarity and detail was comforting.
Evil Editor said...There was an opening cartoon in Roger Rabbit. Violent, of course.
ril said...What struck me about the 'cartoon' was the sense of melancholy. The cat and mouse are resigned to needing each other and existing only for the sake of the other.
Evil Editor said...An obvious analogy to world politics, war, and the Donald Trump/Rosie O'Donnell spat.
ril said...Yes, quite obvious. Though Rosie probably wouldn't get through the mousehole.
Dave F. said...Codependency is the word.
Dave F. said...I read stories out of order. there's three parts to the book. Each in detail, each with a theme.
Evil Editor said...Turns out the first section, Vanishing Acts, is the only one that's actually stories. Impossible Architectures is essays in which he takes cool ideas, carries them to ridiculous extremes, and then carries them even farther. I found them hilarious, but they might be better individually than clumped together. Of course, they originally appeared in different places, and weren't intended to be clumped together.
fairyhedgehog said...That's interesting that it's not all stories. I didn't feel that plot was his strongest point.
ril said...I saw a review that said of this collection, essentially the sum was not greater than the parts and his stories are better taken individually...
fairyhedgehog said...I've only read the first four stories. He's great at the right details for description but I have a sense of the stories not going anywhere. It's like there's this mysterious atmosphere, which is described at great length, and then "she died" or "she disappeared" THE END. I'd love to be able to write descriptions with his eye for detail.
ril said...There were some wonderful phrases, like "hands dipped in work"...
Dave F. said...This is one book that I'm going to keep and completely finish. I usually give the books away to my family. Some books I read fast all the way through. Other books I savor the story slowly. This isn't one of the latter. I enjoyed what I read. The commentary is interesting, thoughtful and fun to read.
ril said...What I've read, they're more like vignettes or character studies.
Dave F. said...I look at this more like Holst's "The Planets" or Bach's "Well Tempered Clavier" or Messian's "20 Contemplations on the Infant Jesus" all of which contain musical essays on sort-of disparate topics. That episodic feel doesn't bother me.
Evil Editor said...I read one story a day. Not because I'd read that review, but because I didn't want to finish the whole thing three weeks before the chat. He does have some novels out; it would be interesting to see if they're standard novels or connected character studies. He won the Pulitzer for his novel Martin Dressler. Wonder if it's a character study of Martin Dressler.
ril said...According to Wikipedia, Martin Dressler vividly evokes its time and place through elaborate description...
ril said...I think suspension of disbelief is a requirement. Like something delicate, I don't think these stories stand up to too much analysis...Like in the Room in the Attic -- Actually it's difficult to buy a room being totally dark with only a pair of curtains at the window...
fairyhedgehog said...I think you're right, ril. I was disappointed, though, because the stories seemed to promise more than they delivered.
ril said...Indeed, the paradox of Magic Realism is how the magic makes it unrealistic...It's almost a tease... Like Isabel's games.
Dave F. said...He's very good at detailed description and that is how he tells the story.
Dave F. said...Take something like "The Other Town" where the city builds a replica -- how many times in our lives do we create monuments to unreality? How many people build a life on cards or sand or out of wishful thoughts?
Evil Editor said...I liked the cartoon and the first two sections a lot. I was a bit bored by Heretical Histories (which no one else here got to, I take it?) It seemed to be using the same idea as the Impossible Architectures, and by then I'd had enough. But again, the stories first appeared in various places, and were only collected into this book in hopes of cashing in twice for the same material.
ril said...Yeah, that review I read said the collection got tedious by repetition. I'm not there yet...He still teaches for a living, so I suppose "cashing in" is relative.
Dave F. said...I'm still not convinced that alternate histories are worth it. I didn't want to say that out loud for fear of getting stones thrown at me.
ril said..."The Disappearance of Elaine Coleman" and "The Room in the Attic" both have a kind of teenage angst feel to them. Like they're filtered through undeveloped emotions, where small things seem huge even though they're, well, not that big...
fairyhedgehog said...I enjoyed the cartoon at first but I kept wanting it to go somewhere and I never felt it did. I didn't get beyond Vanishing Acts, I'm afraid.
ril said...I actually look back on the cartoon as my favorite one so far. Maybe it struck me as the most original idea...
ril said...I'm not sure how much I'd enjoy reading it a second time, though...
Evil Editor said...I read it a second time this morning. I actually liked it better.
Evil Editor said...I'll have to line up a short story collection that's actual stories for a future chat.
ril said...Oh, and the author's picture on the back of the book looks remarkably like Dave's picture here. Coincidence?
Evil Editor said...It's the exact same angle. Can't be coincidence.
Dave F. said...HEAVENS RIL -- only the fact that we both are male, have gray hair and glasses make us look alike. I see my face in the mirror and I saw my picture before I touched it up for online (gasp, giggle, guffaw)...My morning laugh and nearly choke to death.
Dave F. said...I never look at EE's books as problems. Most of them I wouldn't ever under any circumstances buy, let alone read. So I never mind the agony of reading them if it is not what I typically read. But then, I can still work up a student's enthusiasm.
ril said...I'm usually pretty selective about which ones I try, not least because of the cost of getting them over here.
Evil Editor said...I assume current bestsellers are easier to get in Japan than obscure small press books.
ril said...Generally, yes, though interestingly I had no problem getting this collection. Amazon.jp had it in stock already. If not in stock, books can take 3 or 4 weeks to arrive. Maybe I should get a Kindle...
Evil Editor said...The Kindle is much cooler than I thought possible. I don't have one, but I've tried one out.
sylvia said...I got a Kindle for my birthday and bought this book in Kindle format from Amazon. It's useful for getting books quickly - and means I don't have to get the book chat books so far in advance to save shipping costs.
ril said...I'm tempted by the Kindle, but the price is still pretty high. Was surprised to hear they sell the books for it at a loss.
fairyhedgehog said...I try to read all the ones that I think I won't positively hate. I've read a lot that I wouldn't have gone for and enjoyed some of them!
Evil Editor said...Sorry, had to take a phone call. I'm back.
ril said...It wasn't Steven Millhauser bitching about us was it?
Evil Editor said...Millhauser. Doesn't even make himself reachable online so I can bug him to show up for a four-person chat about his book that three of the people barely started.
ril said...His loss.
sylvia said...The sun came out and I was tempted by the great outside. I forgot about the chat completely!
ril said...Hope you haven't read the book. It would be so awkward, otherwise.
Evil Editor said...Did you read the whole book, Syl?
sylvia said...I haven't finished the book. I was really unhappy with the first one - but one of my pet peeves is people telling me the plot to television shows or movies they've seen. So I kept thinking "you aren't really going to describe the whole series to me, are you?" Because it was a book chat book, I continued and I'm glad I did. That was the only one that I had such a negative reaction to.
Evil Editor said...You hated the cartoon? Obviously you didn't watch Tom and Jerry in your formative years.
sylvia said...I did! I just didn't like sitting through the retelling of them. It's a pet hate of mine but just felt like a silly joke taken way too far. I guess it's just me though :)
fairyhedgehog said...I was actually very impressed with the cartoon. Being able to describe something so purely visual in a way that I could see it in my mind's eye struck me as very skilful. I just wish he had either not gone on for so long, or had had more of an interesting dénouement.
ril said...He does seem reluctant to give a story an ending. Perhaps he doesn't want to disappoint anyone? Or he just can't decide.
Evil Editor said...I thought the denouement summed up the theme that was embedded in the psychoanalysis of the mouse and cat. I did think it would have been better without the guillotine section, which was the one scene that didn't remind me of the cartoons I used to watch.
ril said...Yeah, maybe he's seen Itchy and Scratchy, too. He maybe did skirt the edge of taking it too far. I started thinking WTF at first, but after a couple of straight "re-tellings" he started to introduce some of the internal thoughts of the characters that we don't get in the show.
Evil Editor said...If you think he took the cartoon too far, wait'll you read the Architectures. At least those are short, and he takes them so far they become funny in the absurdity of it all.
sylvia said...Other than that one, I liked the stories I read - Something disturbing and strange and distant about each of them. You don't see many collections of short stories, I meant to look up his name to see if he was already famous before this was published. Missing Elaine was next and I really liked the feeling of her just slowly fading away without anyone ever paying enough attention to notice what was happening to her.
Dave F. said...The missing Elaine felt sad in a sterile sort of way.
sylvia said...I like the way he led us to gentle endings where things just happened or stopped happening and I was left feeling that nothing would change. Depressing though.
Evil Editor said...The Room in the attic has an ending. He finally gets the opportunity to see Isabel, and he leaves. Apparently feeling to see her would destroy their relationship, which is based on not seeing her?
ril said...Yes. In the end, perhaps that was the only possibly satisfactory ending..
Evil Editor said...I guess we've discussed this book that some of us read some of long enough. Get that next book early so the author doesn't think she showed up for nothing.
sylvia said...Have you read Martin Dressler?
Evil Editor said...Not I. This is the only book I've read by Millhauser.
ril said...No, this was the first Millhauser I read (some of). I guess this is winding up somewhat ambiguously... Not bad, not wholly satisfying either. Apt, perhaps.
sylvia said...I may get the novel and see what its like. Ril's right - now I feel like I shouldn't say goodbye but simply watch everyone drift away one by one.
Evil Editor said...Those who finish the book eventually are welcome to add comments to the chat in the future, preferably in the edited version at evileditor.net. Bye, all, see you nex
Robin S. said...AHHHHHH. Dammit. I missed it. We've been working on the house, prepping to sell, and I was outside all morning, then to the store for fixing-up crap, now sitting in a sort of coma, and all of a sudden it hit me. Book Chat. Dammit. I can't believe I missed it! Sorry, EE. I apologize. Plus I missed a good discussion.
Dammit.
Evil Editor said...Too bad. We could have used someone who'd actually read it.
Evil Editor said...I picked up a copy of Martin Dressler at Barnes & Noble today. I'll let you know.
