Kiersten said... I thought I'd start out with a very brief background on Meyer and Twilight, if that's okay. It's pretty interesting.
Yank in Scotland said... Hi from Scotland, where it's 11pm and still (just) twilight.
(I love summer.)
Kiersten said... So, aspiring writers, prepare to pull your hair out by the roots in exasperation. Stephenie Meyer, young stay at home mom to three small boys, woke up one morning with a very vivid dream still in her head--two people sitting in a meadow, talking about how they were falling in love with each other and this was bad because the boy was a vampire. So she started writing. And kept writing. And--I kid you not--six months later she had a finished manuscript, Jodi Reamer at Writers House for an agent, and a book that sold at auction for $100,000.
Evil Editor said... And then she wrote Twilight.
Kiersten said... Ha ha, EE, the book was Twilight. Sorry.
YiS said... Wow, I didn't know that. Good for her! -
Robin S. said... That must have been one vivid daydream.
Kiersten said... Yeah, she said she couldn't get the image out of her head, and after she wrote it down she started crafting a story around it. That dream is now chapter thirteen of the book. She currently has legions of fans rabidly devoted to her, and each of her four books (three in the twilight series, which will conclude this summer with the fourth book, Breaking Dawn, and an unrelated sci-fi book, Host, that came out at the beginning of May) have hit #1 on the NYT Bestseller list.
sylvia said... *turns green*
Robin S. said... Maybe we should take a page out of her book, and write about our, um, dreams.
Kiersten said... You dream EE is a vampire?
sylvia said... My dreams are way too bizarre for public consumption and I'm not convinced that Robin's are ready for prime time ;)
Robin S. said... And yeah, Sylvia- mine are, you know. Well, you know. they might well be bestsellers, though. Maybe I'll add a chapter to mine. Anyway- back to Twilight.
Kiersten said... Other biographical info on Meyer that actually plays pretty heavily into the narrative is that she is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (aka Mormon). So, if anyone is interested in how that influenced aspects of the novel, I'm a good resource ; )
YiS said... Kiersten - actually, I *was* wondering about how her religious background may have influenced the novels, so please do tell.
Robin S. said... OK - I already have questions - but I'll wait - because I'm good.
Kiersten said... No, please ask! I just wanted to give the background first of all so that we could all scream out our frustration that some people really are overnight successes in publishing and because I think it's interesting. Did any of you see that Meyer was recently named one Time's 100 most influential people of 2008. ??
Evil Editor said... Before we discuss what's so good about it, here's what I didn't like about the book (which I read on planes and in airports). I think there's way too much detail in the first two thirds. Every little thing anyone says or does is reported. Then at the end, she writes off the villain in one sentence: Alice and (forgot name) took care of him. How about some detail on defeating this fearsome vampire? Also, while I'm not as anti-adverb as some, I stopped counting adverbs when it went over 2000.
Kiersten said... Oh, don't worry EE, I'm actually not a rabidly devoted fan. I have a LOT of criticism of these books. Meyer is interesting because she writes sci fi and fantasy almost action free. She focuses so much on how her characters are feeling and the relationships that action is relegated to a distant second. I mean, she creates these awesomely powerful creatures and doesn't even describe their fight? In a later book she does describe a fight between two vampires, but she definitely is not good at writing action.
A. said... I agree with EE. I love Meyer's books and think she's great at making us care about her characters... but she has a tendency to over write.
Kiersten said... She is definitely WAY over descriptive. And she is very repetitive--my fifteen year old brother suggests a fun game of counting how many times Bella stops breathing or describes her heartbeat. I guess you could even make it a drinking game if you were so inclined.
sylvia said... I really disliked the beginning of the book - if it wasn't for the bookchat, I don't think I'd have bothered to continue. The protag was just so whiney and unhappy about everything. It wasn't just that she hated Forks but her entire tone towards her mother and her father and the weather. It wasn't until she started to focus in on Edward that the story started to work for me.
YiS said... My main gripe about Twilight was: oh, let's have a baseball game in the storm. Fun baseball game. Oh look, here are other vampires coming to see us. We must protect Bella. Oh no, here is a very bad vampire. Oh no, he wants Bella.- and that's basically what triggers not only the denouement of this book, but the action of the next two. Seemed awfully random.
A. said... Okay... personally, I enjoyed the baseball game :) My biggest gripe mirrors Sylvia's... Bella is a bit on the helpless side, and Edward doesn't help her gain independence by protecting her every second of the day...
sylvia said... I didn't mind the other vampires showing up (they did talk about them earlier) but I did feel a bit "Huh?" with the whole "He's a tracker" thing. I never quite understood what that was supposed to mean, other than that they knew he'd be obsessive.
Evil Editor said... I was glad something triggered something. I wasn't happy they were going to play ball because it seemed like filler, but it actually started the plot moving finally.
YiS said... EE - fair point, but the huge significance seemed to, er, come out of left field. In three pages of dialogue, it goes from 'baseball game' to 'BELLA IN HORRIBLE DANGER RUN RUN RUN'. -
Kiersten said... Yeah, it is surprising how long it takes her to get to the baseball game/threat that moves the plot forward from "Oh, let's talk about what my favorite gemstones are because that's how you know if you love someone." Here is my main criticism of the book: I think Bella and Edward's relationship is very destructive, co-dependent, and actually has most of the warning flags of an abusive relationship. And young girls all over the country fantasize about Edward and how romantic it is. Also, here is how their relationship develops: Edward: "Oh, that girl smells so good I want to kill her. I better not." Bella: "Wow, he's really hot but he looks like he hates me." Edward: "I can't read your mind, how fascinating." Bella: "He's still really hot and he doesn't hate me any more. I love him. I think he might still want to kill me and he keeps giving criptic hints that he's dangerous, but I don't care because I LOVE HIM SO MUCH EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE ONLY HAD FOUR CONVERSATIONS!" Edward and Bella: "We love each other."
Robin S. said... Yeah, Kiersten- this is the dangerous bad guy with a heart of gold thing. Which in reality - bites.
Kiersten said... That's what bothers me about it, Robin, is WHY it appeals. Let's look at it this way: Say Blondie meets a new guy at school. He's incredibly moody--one minute, he acts like he hates her, the next he's flirting, but there's always a subtext to his conversation with him hinting that he's dangerous and could hurt her. They have maybe four, five conversations, and Blondie decides she doesn't care what is wrong with him, she loves him. Even if it means being with him could get her hurt or even killed, she doesn't care. Then, after all of this, she finds out he's been sneaking into her room at night watching her. This is the point where you CALL THE POLICE. Being stalked is neither sexy nor romantic.
Robin S. said... Yep. Actually- we've come close to that - with Robin Jr. A real asshole. So many women deal with this - that the bad guy is the exciting one. When he's really just a big ass. I agree. Not a good signal for young women. But it obviously DOES appeal - some things never seem to change.
sylvia said... I can see Kiersten's point but that's a big seller in romance novels in general, really. The whole love/hate mix and "I should stay away from you but I can't." Having accepted that the book was focused around her wanting to sleep with him (guess she better watch that time of the month), it didn't particularly bother me that it wasn't a healthy relationship. To an extent, that was the point.
Robin S. said... I thought (no kidding) this book was a long and plotted piece of foreplay.
sylvia said... I'm laughing aloud re: the drinking game. I did enjoy the book once she perked up - although I can see Robin's point about it being a long piece of foreplay. I did feel frustrated that it took AGES to find out if his desire for her was JUST blood or actually sexual at all.
Robin S. said... Bluntly- I think the foreplay aspect is the reason it best sells. The dream she woke up with gives me a big hint - that may well be true. I'm not saying it wasn't a fun read, (and there was the enjoyment factor thing)-but not my usual cup of tea. Kudos to S.M. for her success. It was obviously a successful dream that appeals to a bajillion females.
Kiersten said... Ah yes, the foreplay aspect. I guess this is part of the appeal to teenage girls. Bella's mom moves across the country and Bella lives with her dad who watches sports or is gone ALL THE TIME and doesn't notice that she has a boy in her room all night every night. But since Edward won't sleep with her, the threat/menace of sex is removed and replaced entirely with romance/foreplay, making it "safe." As far as James' abilities, I don't think she had that figured out very well in this book, because in the next couple of books she kind of scrambles to explain different vampire's special abilities. James is apparently a very good tracker.
YiS said... Kiersten - I wasn't paying close attention to the vampires' abilities but there did seem a whiff of (as I believe the HP fans say) retconning. Which is completely understandable; unless you have every last world detail plotted out, things are going to need changing. But the vampire superpowers did get a little too convenient, sometimes, esp. in later books.
Robin S. said... The sleeping together every night with no touching. That's when the foreplay aspect REALLY took off for me. Bluntly - that boy wouldn't have made it through the night with me, virgin or not at the time, without some action. And I think that's what most young girls are thinking - not just not-young-girl me.
Kiersten said... Ah, Robin, this is because you weren't raised Mormon, where sex is an absolute and complete NO until you are married. So having that physical closeness without actual intercourse is a Mormon girl's dream come true. She's not actually breaking any rules. Granted, Bella is not a Mormon, but Meyer is, and I think that Bella is pretty much Meyer as a teenager.
Robin S. said... But I was raised Catholic - back in the day- the strictures were just as strict. (We had the nuns and the priests and all the confession crap, you know.) I still did what I wanted. I think basically no religion would've stopped a person like me from doing precisely what I felt like doing. And again I say- Steph may be a traditionally-thought-of good girl in public- but her dreams are betraying her actual wishes. (And I'd kill if mine did the same. But mine are nastier.)
Kiersten said... lol, Robin. It's true. I have very violent stories in my head that I'm too embarrassed to write because of what my mom might think.
sylvia said... Hmm, I was like Bella tbh. My first serious boyfriend was happy to cuddle and snuggle up for hours. The next guy I dated assumed getting into bed together meant sex - I was shocked and disappointed. So I can see the appeal in that - and I would have, at the appropriate reading age.
Kiersten said... Sylvia, excellent point. Because really, other than that he can't read her mind, what does Bella have going for her? She's moderately smart. Not talented, not outgoing, not athletic, very insecure, not especially pretty...pretty much you are left wondering why DOES he like her?
Robin S. said... Yeah- why DID Edward like her? The scent started it, right? This thing where it's the girl's fault she's attacked again. Hmmmph.
Kiersten said... Yes, Robin, exactly! Classic abuser!
A. said... I think we have to remember that the narrator is Bella and she has a very low self-image. I imagine she has to be better than she thinks she is. All the other boys at school seem to be into her, so she must be desirable in human ways.
sylvia said... I think a. is right as well in that Bella is narrating so of course she'll constantly be putting herself down. But it would be nice if Edward had something specific that focused him on her, other than her blood scent.
Evil Editor said... In Homicide My Own last month we were saying ewww when a 14-yr.old girl was involved with a 30-something guy. What about Bella and a 108 year old guy?
Robin S. said... EE- I never thought about the age difference - as Edward was 'still' 18. sort of.
A. said... Well, EE, to be fair... Edward can't really date girls his own age :) Yuck.
Evil Editor said... But mentally and emotionally Edward is not a teenager.
Kiersten said... No, and I think Meyer tries to get around that with her assertion that Bella is an "old soul" and really mature. But really, where is that demonstrated? None of her actions seem very mature to me.
Robin S. said... True, EE. He's crafty. Eternally young. And a bad guy. And hot. And he'll never be not hot or have a poochy belly. Damn. He's perfect. Bring on the nibbling.
sylvia said... I did think about the "age difference" - his experience and worldly knowledge so outstripped hers. That bothered me more really as between that and superspeed and reading the thoughts of people around her, there wasn't any real balance between them. "Yeah, but you make me laugh."
A. said... I think it's difficult to say what Edward is mentally and emotionally. No, he's not really 17. But on the other hand, he's never had a real relationship, either. It's new to him, too. He also socializes with other humans very little. His only real experiences past the age of 17 have been with other vampires...
Evil Editor said... He's old enough to know what's really important in a relationship. Technically, he's an old geezer.
A. said... I find it interesting that these books appeal to women of all ages. Have you ever been to a Meyer book signing? My mother is a high school teacher and we took some of her students to a signing here. There were hundreds of screaming teenagers, but there were also plenty of older women, as well.
Dave F. said... I'm late to the discussion. I made it 15 pages into the book, FOUR TIMES.
Kiersten said... Ha ha, Dave, you are definitely not the target audience.
Dave F. said... Knew that. I usually can force my way through a book. Worse, I have a niece who had a baby at 16. I look (with good reason) poorly on older guys and teen girls.
sylvia said... I dug into the book about halfway through I think - stayed up late to read more. I ordered the next book on the basis of that, but I'll be really annoyed if her balance issues don't get dealt with soon!
Kiersten said...Sylvia, New Moon will make you want to scream in frustration. It is NOT good and Bella is a freaking co-dependent IDIOT. But Eclipse is better.
Evil Editor said... Are Bella and Edward the stars of all the books?
A. said... EE: They are the main characters, but there are plenty of other characters who become important. I read in an interview of Meyer's that she's wrapping up the Edward/Bella story in the fourth book and will then focus on some of the other characters more.
Kiersten said...Yes, Bella and Edward are the focus of all of the books.
YiS said... EE - yes. (Well, the first three, but the fourth is the final told from Bella's pov, so I'm guessing it's all about Her And Edward TLF.) And there will also be Twilight retold from Edward's pov (!). -
Kiersten said...Let's talk about all of the descriptions of killing her that are given in rape terminology. Vampire stories are classically about sex, anyway, right? When Edward is talking about the first time she came into the room and he says, "It was all I could do not to lure you into the woods and take you right then." Hello, take you? Yikes. So if you are going for the whole sucking blood as sex metaphor, he basically wanted to rape her the moment he met her, but then when he got to know her he fell in love with her instead, so he could keep it under control. I know that teenagers won't read this much into it, but it really does kind of disturb me.
Robin S. said... EE, do men wanna be bitten by a hot woman? Be honest. Remember - we don't know who you are.
Evil Editor said... No, we don't. It hurts.
Robin S. said... That's what I thought, EE.
sylvia said... I'm not convinced you have to like the idea of being bitten to like the tension brought up by his desire and denial of her blood.
sylvia said... I spent half the book convinced that Bella was supernatural (and that Forks/Charlie was the key). It answered so many questions - Forks weird micro-climate, her parents being so not-parent-like, balance issues, why he can't read her thoughts AND what he sees in her. I mean, I'm not saying I wanted her to turn out to be a zombie or anything, but...
Dave F. said... Beware of that little seduction game. He says: "I'm going to respect your wish for no sex." His actions are to get her hot, bothered and naked. Then as we all know, things happen.
Kiersten said... Sylvia, in later books there are hints that Bella is unusual in some sort of way, but she doesn't have powers or anything.
Kiersten said... A, Meyer has explained that by saying when she grew up in Phoenix no boys noticed her, but when she went to school in Provo, Utah, she was a lot hotter because of the comparison. Which is weird, because I went to BYU, and you will never find more cute, perky, thin, absolutely dolled up girls. Because they are all looking for husbands. Anyway. That's how she justifies why Bella is so desirable.
A. said... Well, it may be the new girl to a small town thing...
sylvia said... I had a friend who describes a similar experience, moving from Southern California to Idaho. I think big town -> small town move can increase attractiveness because you seem that much more worldly. Although that wouldn't work on Edward, obviously.
Robin S. said... You're totally on top of your subject - K. Good for you, girl! What a fun discussion. yep- the blood suck thing is foreplay while the suspense 'mounts', then the sex act, the taking of the flesh and blood - and it's an act of supreme selfishness. Like rape.
Dave F. said... Let ma also defend men. Even in gay novels where guy vampire creates guy vampire, it's not seduction or rape. The men in vampire stories are usually flunkies serving as feeding bags for the queen vampire.
YiS said... So, any bets on whether there's going to be an explanation for why Edward can't read Bella's thoughts, or is it going to remain a kind of vague indication that they are Meant To Be? Also, her father really becomes a cliche. Not Meyer working her A game. 'Hmm, I need him out of the way. There's a sporting event on! Again!'
Evil Editor said... It's her first novel. She had no A game.
A. said... The inability to read her mind comes up in later books.
YiS said... EE - true, but it doesn't get any better in subsequent books! Another item for the drinking game, maybe? -
sylvia said... YiS - thank you. And makes sense, but she MUST have had the further books in her head, considering all the stuff set up that must mean something - so the reader is waiting for the other shoe to drop. The references are too blatant to all have been just pieces of the first story that she decided to expand upon later, I think.
Kiersten said... Yeah, but she had to scramble to explain why Edward's power (and other vampires' powers) don't work with Bella, but Alice could see her future and Jasper could affect her emotions. I don't think she had that planned out.
YiS said... Sylvia and Kiersten - all the stuff about Jacob must have been planned from Book 1; it's all essential and tightly embedded. -
Kiersten said... Yeah, I think the Jacob stuff was planned.
Kiersten said... Yes, in later books it goes more into why he can't read her thoughts. I'm expecting a payoff with that in the last book, but I think it was just convenient for the first book and then she worked it more in the next books.
Robin S. said... Hey. I'm working my ass off to have an A game, Sparky. If I was good with a B game- it would already be out there. But now- I need to add some of my amazing night dreams - so it will best sell. Or - scare the living hell out of every agent in Manhattan.
Evil Editor said... Sharks. I keep telling you, add some sharks.
Robin S. said... Miss K - is the fourth book gonna wrap it all up? Will readers know all the answers?
A. said... Meyer has plans to write Twilight from Edward's perspective... I think that will be a far more interesting novel.
Kiersten said... Book four will resolve the will they or won't they question and wrap up their story, yes.
Robin S. said... And I agree- Sylvia- the foreplay doesn't need biting. Though eventually - it needs some kind of culmination. I assume that's part of what the series deal with.
Kiersten said...Robin, the sex issues are addressed a lot more in three.
Dave F. said... AS for writing your dreams. That's a good idea. Write from way deep inside your mind. Write the most sincere thoughts you have. It shows when you let the walls and barriers down that far and expose your "soul"...that sounds so hackneyed, cliche'd and trite. But it's true.
Dave F. said... I am guessing that Bella never becomes a vampire...
Evil Editor said... He would have had to make her a vampire to save her life if he hadn't been able to suck every drop of venom out of her bloodstream. Wouldn't some of that venom have gotten beyond Edward's ability to suck it out? They stood around long enough discussing what to do.
Kiersten said... I really can't see Meyer making her a vampire in the last book. I think something will happen that will be allow the good vampires to turn normal.
A. said... Really? I think Bella will be a vampire.
sylvia said... I didn't see anything in the first book to imply that any of them would want to be normal, does that change?
Robin S. said... Oh, crap - Dave- I hope you're not right!Do they HAVE SEX??? Ever? I mean, honestly. Sylvia.
A. said... Sylvia - they discuss the moral implications of being a vampire in the later books, but very little. The only one who I think would choose to be normal is Edward.
Kiersten said... A, Rosalee is desperate to be human. That's why she hates Bella. And Robin, the answer is no, not yet.
Evil Editor said... Does she hate all humans or just Bella?
Kiersten said... Mostly she just hates Bella, but it's because she envies Bella the opportunity for a normal life that Bella is willing to throw away, since Rosalie didn't get a choice.
A. said... Rosalie resents being made into a vampire, but I don't think she'd choose to be a human again. Vanity is her biggest weakness and as a vampire she is as beautiful as she'll ever be. I don't think she'd want to go through the aging process, etc. And she also wouldn't leave Emmett. In my opinion. And one of the reasons she hates Bella is because Edward loves Bella... but wouldn't accept her as his partner when Carlisle created her. Again... vanity.
sylvia said... I thought Rosalie's hatred/jealousy was pretty well explained, especially once Edward's rejection of her is brought into it.
Dave F. said... How does the book deal with killing people for their blood?
Kiersten said... Dave, they drink animal blood.
Evil Editor said... I didn't like the idea of the vampires killing bears and mountain lions.
sylvia said... I sort of liked the imagery of them wrestling bears for their blood - otherwise there was a good chance of romanticising the whole vampire thing to the point of losing the story tension.
Kiersten said...Yeah, EE, it's a little weird. Okay, Robin, that gets a lot more into the next books. But think of what Bella is giving up: She can never see her family again. She will have to pull away from them and leave her parents grieving for their only child. She will never be able to have a family of her own. Sure, she'll have hotty Edward forever, but she'll never be able to have children. I guess maybe that was just such a high priority for me that I think it would be tragic to willingly give that up. Also, everything that Edward likes about her is because she's human--becoming a vampire will change everything he likes/finds endearing or attractive about her.
Evil Editor said... Humans are a dime a dozen.
Dave F. said... Isn't that a little self-hatred on Edward's part? he likes all her non-vampire charateristics and would not be attracted to her "vampire" characteristics if she were to become one.
sylvia said... Dave F - that's a good point. It never occurs to Bella that by becoming a vampire, she could completely lose her appeal to him.
Robin S. said... Well, then, Edward really is a selfish ass if he only loves Bella for her human aspects - and not what she would be 'in total' - and I say - to hell with him. I hate jerkweed selfish angsty guys. (Mainly because I knew so many, back when I didn't hate them. As with most women - even if they think their personal case is different.)
A. said... I completely disagree that Edward would stop loving her as a vampire. It seems to me that his concerns are that a) she won't have a normal life with children, etc and b) she may be damned. Um, pretty good reasons to be hesitant if you truly love someone.
sylvia said... No - I don't mean he would actually reject her. But as insecure as Bella is, it's only just struck me that she's never thought that as a vampire, she's losing her scent and a number of other aspects that make her special to him.
Robin S. said... Good Lord. Sex drive is normal. Not having one - abstaining that long - is clinically strange. Robin S. said... OK- SO WHY IS THIS BOOK A BESTSELLER? I really wanna know. Because I'd never heard of it before it went on EE's list.
Evil Editor said... Who knows why books become bestsellers? This book and The Da Vinci Code get bashed all the time, for legitimate reasons, but can you really argue with massive sales?
Robin S. said... Massive sales. Hmmmm. It's a fence walk that's honestly screwing me up - trying to write for sales or write for what I think of as a well-written novel. Hope I get to find out.
sylvia said... Bestseller : I think it's romance for kids that don't have a handle on romance yet. Fast moving Gone with the Wind style but "urban fantasy" so it's not embarrassing to get caught with it. I ended up quite drawn in at some point - not in any kind of serious level, more like not being able to put the popcorn down. But still...
Kiersten said... Yeah, Sylvia, it's popcorn. If you don't overthink it, it's pretty fun. My first read through I really liked it. But when I started thinking about it afterward, so many aspects of it really bothered me. But like I said, this is romance for teenage girls. The more angst, the more drama, the better. Which, as adults, we know isn't true. Hopefully.
Dave F. said... People like to solve puzzles. That's why the DaVinci Code was popular.
sylvia said... The Da'Vinci code had me screaming at the book. I made my boyfriend read it immediately - as everyone I knew had loved it and I thought it was just me. Was so relieved when he started shouting at the book too (although "WTF are they doing to that poor Earl Grey?" still makes me laugh.)
A. said... Well, writing for sales probably never works. Besides, Kiersten told us Meyer wrote her book in a few months with no real intentions at first of having it published. I think a lot of it is luck. And a damn good agent.
Kiersten said... Okay, here's a HUGE pet peeve. This book is vaguely based on Pride and Prejudice. The next book, New Moon, on Romeo and Juliet. PLEASE can we stop treating Romeo and Juliet like a romance? Folks, it's a tragedy about how stupid adults and kids are and how selfishness destroys everyone around you. How applicable to Bella and Edward.
Dave F. said... Yeah, 14, 15, and 16 year olds are blind to everything when "love" is involved.
Kiersten said... Okay, does anyone care if we discuss spoilers for the next two books, or do you want to know?
Robin S. said... Go ahead with the spoilers, in my opinion. I'm not reading 2 and 3- and if I read 4 - it will be a speed-read. What's the dirt from books 2 and 3?
Evil Editor said... Spoil me.
YiS said... Okay, since we're going ahead with the spoiling - I wanted to smack Edward in book 2. He leaves Bella and then berates her for believing that he would ever leave her and not trusting in his awesome powers of vampire love. So the fact that she has insecurities - which, come on, she's SEVENTEEN - and actually thinks 'hey, he has good reasons for this' is her not being committed enough? Hey, I completely get the whole 'abusive relationship' thing now! -
Kiersten said... Okay, let's take a poll. How many of us wish we had made an eternal commitment to the person we were dating at seventeen? Me, I was dating a gay, drug addicted pathological liar. So I'd go in the no category.
Robin S. said... I can only remember the last names of two guys I knew when I was seventeen. I thought it was only me.
A. said... No, I certainly wouldn't want to be with the guy I was with at 17. But he wasn't Edward Cullen... Personally, I have a bit of thing for Jasper, even though he does attempt to eat Bella in book 2 :)
sylvia said... LOL I'm with you on that one Kiersten! But when I was 17? I sorta half thought that's what I should do. I wanted it to be forever. That fantasy aspect has to be very appealing at an age where feelings are so strong and everyone is telling you that everything is temporary.
Evil Editor said... I have to go. However, I'll leave comment moderation off so the discussion can continue. Sorry, unavoidable.
sylvia said... I don't think it would be possible to write something like that if you didn't still have the fantasy, though.
sylvia said... Aw, see you EE!
Robin S. said... Oh - EE. We'll miss you.
A. said... Actually, I should probably go, too. I have to study for the half of the bar that I didn't pass (failed by less than half a point... sheesh). That's why I haven't been around as much lately. I'll see more of you guys in August :) Have fun discussing the future books. So far, book 3 was my favorite. We learn more of the histories of the other vampires, particularly Rosalie and Jasper. I'm really hoping book 4 is fabulous (due to be released in August), but I fear it won't be, since she spent a good portion of the year dealing with her first adult novel.
Kiersten said... Good luck, A. The BAR is evil. Pure evil.
sylvia said... See you soon a. - get studying! That must be frustrating. Fingers crossed for book 4 (I guess the adult novel isn't out yet?)
Kiersten said... Came out a few weeks ago. The Host. Don't recommend it unless you loved these books.
A. said... Yeah, the adult novel was just released last month. If you think Twilight was overwritten, wait until you read The Host. It was pretty good for entertainment purposes... an easy, interesting read, but it's unnecessarily long. Meyer really doesn't like to edit :) Okay, really going now :) Good night!
Kiersten said... Bummer. Bye, EE Okay, New Moon. Edward leaves her after she cuts her finger at his house and Jasper wants to eat her. (PLOT HOLE: how on earth does Jasper function surrounded by fertile young women every day at school? Because periods? Blood. All the time.) Bella goes pretty much catatonic, doesn't do anything. She's LAME. Then she gets to be friends with Jacob and they have an awesome relationship, he helps her come out of zombie mode and just as he's leaning in to kiss her and she's wondering if she can move on from Edward... Alice comes back and Edward thought Bella was dead and is going to kill himself. Real healthy dynamic, these two. She saves him, blah blah, whatever. They are back together.
sylvia said... OK, I agree, that sounds awful.
Robin S. said... Why did Edward think she was dead?
Kiersten said... Because in an effort to feel alive, and because when she did stupid things she could hear Edward in her head yelling at her (no, this is not really explained satisfactorily) she jumps off of a cliff into the ocean. Alice saw this in a vision. But Alice can't see werewolves (and Jacob is a werewolf, btw) so when he saves her Alice doesn't see that. So Edward thinks Bella killed herself.
sylvia said... OH - that Jacob! sylvia said... I was thinking Jasper - that he had the same scent thing going on.
Kiersten said... Okay, that's the other frustrating thing--she builds up this love triangle between Jacob, Bella, and Edward. But as my sister said, she liked Edward and Jacob both better than Bella, and wishes those two would just get together. Bella has a much healthier relationship with Jacob, and even though I know she'll choose Edward because it's more romantic, I'd rather see her with the person that makes her happy instead of constantly miserable. I'm just weird that way.
Robin S. said... I liked Jacob better in the first book as well.
sylvia said... I like the idea of Edward and Jacob getting together!
Dave F. said... you would say that this is a teen girl book?
Robin S. said... Dave, I don't know about what Kiersten and Sylvia and others think- but I sure do agree- this is a teen book - in my reading experience.
Robin S. said...So- end of book 2- they're together? Book 3?
Kiersten said... Okay, Book Three... Edward and Bella are in LOVE. Bella's dad hates Edward. But they are in LOVE so they don't care. But poor Jacob is heartbroken. Edward forbids Bella to see him because werewolves have bad tempers (ahem...ABUSIVE) but she starts hanging out with him again. There's all this elaborate setup so that Bella ends up in the mountains on a freezing cold night and has to spend the night in a sleeping bag with Jacob while Edward watches. Then she is sleeping but still hears their whole conversation about how they both love her. Victoria comes to hunt down Bella, Edward kills her and a bunch of vamps she brought with her with the help of Jacob's werewolf pack. Bella and Edward are going to get married at the end of the summer because Bella doesn't want to be nineteen forever. Edward agrees to try to have sex before turning her into a vampire because she's worried when she's no longer human she will want blood more than anything else instead of wanting Edward more than anything else. The end.
Kiersten said... Absolutely a teen book. I'm leaving a lot of stuff out, but that's the book in a nutshell.
Dave F. said... Gee, the Dad doesn't like the boy his daughter is dating.
Robin S. said... Wow. No sex drive as a vampire? I thought Carlyle and Esme and others lived as marrieds. Does that just mean they share dishwashing duty? Who's Victoria? This is SOoooo protracted for a not-bog-plot. I say again. Foreplay. Titillation. Tantalization (if that's a word).
sylvia said... LOL ... aw. *shakes head* I wanted to slap sense into Bella at the beginning of Book 1 - I can see that's not an isolated occurrence.
Kiersten said... Well, in one scene Bella tries to seduce Edward and he wants to wait because he's an old fashioned guy. So he makes her agree to marry him first. Then in the end, he agrees to go for it right then, but she knows it's important to him to wait, so she agrees to wait until after they get married.
Robin S. said... And yet- as a mechanism for the aforementioned usefulness - reading this right before you turn the lights out - and dreaming of yourself-saving Edward from a forever without love blah blah thing - oh yeah. Let the fantasies begin. Ok- yeah- it's a bestseller.
Kiersten said... Btw, in case you didn't already know that Twilight fans are freaks, there is a fan site that made a replica of Bella's engagement ring you can buy in silver for $70 all the way up to platinum for $1200. People are weird.
Dave F. said... Talk about the teen ability to over-talk, over-analyze and over-dramatize. No decision is ever final, everything is up for discussion, endless discussion.
Robin S. said... Kiersten- this has been really good! Thanks for doing it!
Kiersten said... Okay, any more questions? Any more things you want to discuss? Hey, it was fun. I like having things to think about besides what to make for dinner and how I have to wash Beast Boy's hair for the second time today because he rubbed ice cream in it.
sylvia said... See - that whole thing of I want you so bad I'm trying not to kill you - but I want you to promise you'll be mine forever first. Yes, ok, even as a teenager that would freak me out a bit - but as a fantasy, ooh la la :)
Robin S. said... Brit Boy has had one glass of wine- and, unlike Beast Boy- he;s still fussing. I gotta go. Thanks so much for doing this, EE and Miss K! I like these discussions a lot. And yeah, Sylvia--put into the real world, it's horrifying, but as fantasy it taps into a lot of day dreams that we all have but don't admit to. Yep- Sylvia- the old ooh-la-la dichotomy!
sylvia said...Yes, great job Kiersten. Was really good to get the background and understand how it wraps up. Also lots of points brought up that I hadn't noticed myself.
Kiersten said... I overthink things. Bad habit.
Well, the kids have lost patience. Thanks for staying up, Sylvia ; ) And thanks anyone who read through the whole thing. Yay for EE for giving poor bored housewives who have yet to get a fabulous book deal something to do.
Kiersten said... Also, disclaimer, should Stephenie Meyer or anyone related to her ever read this:
Yes, I think Bella and Edward have an unhealthy relationship and it bothers me, but I've still read all of your books. Three times. So what does that say about me?
sylvia said... I think YiS must have faded away? It's almost 1am her time and they go to bed early in Scotland ;) Hugs to the kids. I'm off to bed too.
Kiersten said... Goodnight!
Julie Weathers said... Good job, Miss Kiersten.
"dave conifer said... Kiersten (I mean, Key), nice job. I wish I could have been here but I enjoyed the way you presented this and I feel like I read it now......
Julie Weathers said... I was just reading the chat. Good job all.
ril said... So, about that book...
Moth said... So, I'm curious. Do they do "it" at the end of Book 3 or is it a to be continued will they or won't they?
Robin S. said... ril...late to the party, Brit Boy?
Kiersten said... No, they do not do "it" by the end of book three. They decide to wait until they get married.
